Warframe tier list 2021 reddit

And some tools are better than others.
Vauban is like the smallest combination wrench in a garage full of large bolts.

I think the point is you wouldn't use a hammer to chop wood.

Tier lists can be interesting mental exercises of "how many uses does this tool have", but the correct answer to "what is the best frame" is to ask "what are you trying to do?"

but that's what's being discussed in the tier list - harrow was a B because he was nichely useful in content such as eidolon hunts and less useful in other content, due to his gameplay style being difficult to maintain, therefore he wasn't rated higher due to his usage being niche, but not lower due to his usage being relevant, but then both operations arrived that made arcanes significantly more accessible, which lowered his ranking, since it became less relevant - like a uniquely-shaped screwdriver which, while not fitting into common screws, had its applications being used on the few screws that it did, having applicable relevance, but then over time uniform shape for the screws was established that made the screwdriver have less use - if you do find one with an old screw, yes, the screwdriver is useful there, but the requiredness of the screwdriver went down.

Dude, use full stops (periods if you're American). That is one sentence.

Khora makes any interception disgustingly easy, all the way into Steel Path. She's also capable of infinitely soloing any level of defense and survival, and probably disruption, though I haven't tried her on that. In excavation I've only ever been concerned with stray shots hitting the excavator through her cage, but that's probably because my range was too low. Khora's just a beast, even after the LoS nerf. Mandatory pick for any endurance loot runs I do these days.

pillage is much quicker and a huge aoe, you can cast it once and get maxed shields easily compared to his 1. I find it really speeds up his gameplay and actually allows him to do his stuff with frames like mesa being around, I shouldn't have said his fix his kit but improves him where he struggles and why brozime put him in c

You are not wrong, his tier lists are getting more and more ouf ot touch with the game (example could be when he talked about Oberon for Eidolons in 2021) and I'm saying that as someone who is actually following his content

He's made at least one factual mistake in the video; I think he just hasn't quite had the heart in the game compared to the previous years? Probably shows how difficult streaming is to sustain, the energy levels to keep that kind of interest over many years to make this standard of content.

I feel that. Yet I'm getting downvoted for saying it and explaining my reasoning. Frost is still pretty good, even up in steel path. He for sure can use some tweaks but he's not as bad as people think he is.

Exactly. Frost needs a rework to some of his abilities, no doubt about it. But putting Hydroid, the worst frame in the game at the moment who has absolutely zero uses outside of his farming niche, above him in the chart is just complete rubbish.

I really want to ask Brozime what makes Hydroid better than Frost.

If you ask I'm sure it'll just come down to his 4 augment. Despite the fact that no one even uses him to farm anymore with so many other less obnoxious farming abilities in the game. Frost brings quite a bit to any team but there are some obvious missions where you aren't going to bring him like Exterminate or Eidolons.

What I want to know is what he's considering "relevant" content since apparently there are others that can do this content that Frost can also do, but they're so much better to the point that he's D tier. If it's just ESO and Eidolons then there's about 30 frames that should be in D.

Farming frames are such a niche and Hydroid is a niche within that niche as well. If Brozime really does put Hydroid above Frost for that reason alone, that he very clearly is not being objective like he seems to think he is.

Warframe revolves around loot. Hydroid increases loot (even if it's bad it's a loot ability). Hybrid and frost are equally bad except hydroid can also be used as a loot bot. Hence why hydroid gets a higher rank

Warframe revolves around loot yes, but specific farming is a niche. We play this game and earn loot passively through gameplay. Getting loot is basically a bonus that goes with the fun gameplay of this game.

But specific focused farming is an absolute chore even with farming frames and that is why it is a niche.

And Frost is nowhere near as bad as Hydroid. The fact you even think they are equal is just incredible. Without any augments, Frost can strip enemy armour completely in a nice radial AOE that ignores all physical objects in the world, freezes enemies in place which provides a nice bit of reliable CC and has a scaling globe shield that he can spam to get over 1 million HP.

Hydroid has absolutely none of this. He has four crap abilities that are all worse versions of things other frames have. The only reason Hydroid is even still in peoples inventory, is because of his loot augment and even now hes been phased put in that area with far more reliable and less clunky loot frames like Khora and Nekros.

Hydroid has no value whatsoever in this game. Frost towers over him in every single way.

Warframe revolves around loot yes, but specific farming is a niche. We play this game and earn loot passively through gameplay. Getting loot is basically a bonus that goes with the fun gameplay of this game.

But specific focused farming is an absolute chore even with farming frames and that is why it is a niche.

Niche to you maybe and a chore yes. But that doesn't change the fact that targeted farming is still done very actively by many players. Anything that makes this go by faster is a big boon even if it's a relatively bad ability.

And Frost is nowhere near as bad as Hydroid. The fact you even think they are equal is just incredible. Without any augments, Frost can strip enemy armour completely in a nice radial AOE that ignores all physical objects in the world, freezes enemies in place which provides a nice bit of reliable CC and has a scaling globe shield that he can spam to get over 1 million HP.

Hydroid has absolutely none of this. He has four crap abilities that are all worse versions of things other frames have. The only reason Hydroid is even still in peoples inventory, is because of his loot augment and even now hes been phased put in that area with far more reliable and less clunky loot frames like Khora and Nekros.

Hydroid literally has an aug that strips armor. His 4 and 2 very easily let you lock down areas with cc. Frost's armor strip on his 4 is just inefficient You have to build a sizable amount of strength and either tank your duration or energy economy which on a frame with a small energy pool is not ideal (remember, not every player has zenurik and energize).

Who even uses snow globe outside of excavation? It is an active hindrance to you and your team in every mission that isn't excavation since it isn't even necessary in defense.

Hydroid has no value whatsoever in this game. Frost towers over him in every single way.

Hydroid is still a loot frame which makes him slightly better than frost. Both frames can fo very similar things but a little differently. Both frames are very outdated in the current landscape of wf. I personally prefer frost over hydroid but that doesn't change the fact that having even a single loot ability will help any frame maintain a modicum of relevance in a looter shooter.

But that doesn't change the fact that targeted farming is still done very actively by many players.

Everyone spends 90% of the time just playing the games normal missions and do not spend most of the time farming in one specific spot. People only go focused farming when they are low on a component.

As I have said and you have agreed; active farming in this game is a chore. And that is why people do not do it much and just farm passively while playing the game.

It is a niche in the fact a very very small amount of players actively enjoy focused farming 90% of the time. Everyone else just does it when they have to, not because they genuinely enjoy doing it and consider it one of the best ways to play the game.

Hydroid literally has an aug that strips armor.

Firstly, augments cannot excuse bad design. As I have already pointed out, Frost can strip armour without augments. That is an automatic point in his favour as he comes with built-in armour strip. Hydroid does not. I have always, always held the stance that if people are using an augment to defend a frame, then its obvious that the base frame itself has absolutely no value and needs to be looked at.

Also, even before the damage rework, Corrosive Barrage wasn't that great an ability because frames like Frost existed, who could cast a radial AOE that does not require line of sight to affect enemies, which means that he could effectively strip armour from an entire hall. Hydroid's armour stripping method, was far more slow and inefficient as he had to individually target the areas and the ridiculous projectiles from Barrage often missed enemies entirely and/or ragdoll them around, which made it far more annoying. It took Hydroid far longer to strip armour off of enemies.

But now after the damage rework, Corrosive Barrage is worthless as the nerf to corrosive effectively made it complete garbage.

His 4 and 2 very easily let you lock down areas with cc.

No they dont. You could make a very small case if the game was still based around really tightly packed corridors, but Warframe now consists of large open maps and tile-sets with a lot of verticality.

As I pointed out previously; Barrage projectiles sometimes outright ignore enemies altogether or get caught on objects in the world, which makes it hilarious unreliable. You also need to charge it up in order to get the most duration out of it, which is awful. Charge abilities are a negative in the current state of Warframe.

Swarm also is not much better as it is based entirely around the RNG mechanic. You are only ever 100% certain to hit enemies on the initial cast. Everything after that is up to the will of the Gods, as you then have to rely on the enemy AI and hope that they walk into the pitiful range of the very slow tentacles and hope the tentacles actually pick them up as sometimes, like Barrage, the tentacles don't even register enemies.

Also, the tentacles spawn in completely random, and often completely useless places, like behind crates, on the ceiling, under platforms/rocks/pipes etc etc. You have absolutely zero control over how effective Swarm is going to be as it is entirely random.

This is not good CC at all, as it is completely unreliable.

With Frost, you know his abilities will always be 100% effective and not based on RNG. When I cast Avalanche, I know for a fact that all enemies within a 30m radius from me, are going to be stripped of armour and frozen in place. That is a textbook example of reliable utility and CC. When I cast Swarm, I have absolutely no idea if the ability is going to be effective at CC'ing enemies beyond the initial cast due to the fact the tentacles spawn in completely random places.

Hydroid has absolutely none of the reassurance that frames with actually reliable abilities, like Frost, provide players.

Frost can lockdown rooms far more effectively than Hydroid can and its always been that way. Is Frost the best CC frame? No, not by a long shot. But is he better at it than Hydroid? Yes.

Who even uses snow globe outside of excavation?

People who play Frost, like me and its incredibly effective when I can just spam my globe over and over again in Steel Path survival and have shield with 1 million HP on it.

Hydroid is still a loot frame which makes him slightly better than frost.

In the farming area, sure. But in every single other category? 100% no. Its really disingenuous to claim that Hydroid is better than another frame, simply because he can do something that frame was never supposed to do in the first place. That's like saying Saryn is better than Loki because she can do more damage, even though Loki was never designed to do damage to begin with.

Both frames can fo very similar things but a little differently.

The only thing Hydroid and Frost have in common is their theme of water manipulation, nothing more. Frost is useful in the majority of Warframes gameplay, Hydroid is not.

Frost offers players an incredibly useful utility/CC ability with avalanche and a decent if slightly outdated shield that he can spam to get very high HP. Most importantly though; none of his abilities require charging, he doesn't require augments, he does not have his abilities effectiveness tied to RNG/environment and you do not need to sacrifice 95% of the gameplay in order to survive while playing him.

Hydroid offers you what? A rubbish unreliable projectile ability, a clunky useless movement ability, a comically bad tank ability which removes 95% of the gameplay and forces you to move at a snails pace and a horrible RNG-based CC ability that people only ever really use when doing dedicated farming, which is not often.

Both frames are very outdated in the current landscape of wf.

While Frost does need some attention from DE, two of his most important and recognisable abilities still manage hold up, as they are not reliant on the environment, not RNG based and are very useful in high level missions. Hydroid has none of this.

Like I said; if Hydroid never had his loot augment, he would have been forgotten much sooner.

Hydroid and Frost need attention sure, but in terms of who is the most in need, Hydroid wins by at least ten miles. In the pecking order, he is at the very bottom.

Brozime is being completely disingenuous by putting Frost below Hydroid in the ratings.

Broken: maybe not.

But one of the strongest WarFrames for sure.

I suppose yeah, but IIRC, there's no other frame that can (with helminth) have three different damage multipliers purely from abilities. There's probably others that can do other dumb things, but its funny how he doesn't understand how she even works.

3 different damage multipliers?

Magnetize, Armor Strip, and..... Armor Strip (until completion) again? Damn, I'm a Mag main and even I'm a bit confused....

Ohhh sorry I read that as 'without Helminth', ok yeah you're correct.

Polarize is also a damage multiplier if you read the ability info, not just an armor strip. The target of magnetize bubble (sadly just that one) will also get another damage multiplier added if they're hit with polarize, which then can feed into the multiplying damage sparks of breach surge. If you throw on the augment, its a straight up better pillage + shooting gallery.

Well that would explain why Fireworks Mag works as well as it does without even needing a weapon.

Oh also, breach surge makes them blind so, stealth multiplier adds even more to the oomph Mag has with it. Because then it sets off the chain reaction made by breach surge because when an enemy that's blinded by it will always send out the multiplied sparks, which are redirected by the bubble into the the rest of the enemies who will multiply that damage because they're blinded by it and... yeah.

Yeah, its kind of absurd.

And then you remember that Polarize can jam guns (with augment) for protection, strip or reduce armor, and instantly refresh shields.

Polarize + Magnetize is what starts that chain reaction.

The issue perhaps is people calling it a tier list when he calls it a review.

A tier list often has a specific metric in mind, a review can simply evaluate what a frame wants to accomplish and if they do accomplish it.

If a review is made it only a singular metric, like damage, of course CC frames will be bad at it, and that leads to very misleading information that simply isn't healthy for the game, because the issue often isn't the frame, and much like how you said, it's the lack of content for those frames.

But to be fair, when there is content for CC frames, Vauban and Limbo aren't even A+, they are out of the charts because they break the game unless there's mechanics that "makes them suck" like how you mention the Arbitration drones (which I disagree in scenarios outside of solo and in a party it's weeds out the bad players).

Still, the underlying issue isn't really the damage meta or the lack of CC frame content, it's the balance being broken to the point that missions were defence is necessary aren't worth doing as new content for the game (and honestly CC meta was extremely boring). People turned their eyes to moan about "everything is MD", but MD is basically a fever mode where the game spawns and drives enemies to a singular tile, it's not any worse than missions like Exterminate or Survival, but I guess anything that can't be beat under a minute is bad? (Because that's pretty much the only argument being thrown around that isn't too far-fetched and yet too silly to consider worth thinking about.)

I find it a shame people don't use CC as an offensive method, unless a "content creator" tells them that Protea works with Larva, while others try to discredit how silly things like Ensnare can be on Atlas because "only more damage is better, even if you spend far more time running around targeting single enemies or groups or 2~3".

All in all, a meta tier list is easy to make, if it does damage it's good, but a "review" using that metric and ignoring the purpose of the frame would be even worse.

In regards to relevant content, he ignores easy starchart shit because literally every frame can do that.

I feel like this is a very rational way to look at it. The "tier list" format is fundamentally flawed. Because you really can't say a Warframe is A tier without explanation. Invara is A but that doesn't make her good at Excavation. Context is important. And what someone considers to be "relevant content" VERY muchso matters on the person.

So I just watched the video, listened to the reasoning, and made my own decisions from it. Like I don't care if Baruuk is an A tier, I hate the way he plays, so I won't play him. And I love Frost...though I do agree he needs some help...my poor cold boy.

Also, as far as Vauban being a C, I feel it is accurate. He is a functional Warframe that either a) doesn't have a home or b) is outclassed by other frames. I feel that fits him really well, so he fits comfortably into C. His CC is top notch and he does good damage. Both of those let him clear content. But CC isn't really needed for most content, and his damage is just outclassed. But then again, it all depends on the content you do that determines if a frame is "functional" or "excellent".

Oh he's good alright. He's good if you know absolutely nothing about any other frame and just want to breeze through certain missions with no thinking involved. He's good if you don't care about warframe abilities and only want a frame that can survive with a large health pool. He's good if you don't like contributing anything to a squad. He's good if you like to watch netflix while you're an hour into a survival.

Most people find that boring hence why he's one of the most requested frames for a rework. I personally judge a frame on more than their sheer amounts of health. If all abilities besides one are rubbish and they are boring to play then I don't care how much health they've got. I'd rather take literally any other tank over Inaros just because of how much of a snoozefest he is.

Frost is literally one of the worst frames right now. He preempts all this by saying that literally any frame can be used in the starchart and most content, but that he tiers these based on everything else. So in that regard, yeah Frost is absolutely at the bottom with Nyx.

And I explained my reasoning why I don't think he is, and you didn't address a single one of those points. What is this content that he's being rated and compared on?

I'm sorry, but if i need to spell out why he is one of the worst frames, then you dont know what is good or bad in warframe at all. He can still be used on starchart just fine and in Sorties I suppose, so chill chile.

You double commented.